Tempest

Tempest

Postby ulo » Mon May 19, 2014 8:32 am

This was the least picked map together with Cinder last season and I have a few thoughts to why it's not such a popular map. However I think with a few changes to the map it could be one of the more loved maps!

The problems for this map I think is based in the boots, it's such a important powerup, which it shouldn't be. It should only be a good and faster addition to reaching points or some minor other powerups. The player on the top point is controlling boots along with if he has really good timing he can control 3 other major powerups along with one minor. So if you have boots you have a easy way of reaching the amp on your own along with the fastest way of reaching the belt. Not only do you have this but top is the only point that has some reason to go for keg. Also if your going for keg you most often also have the pads by the lift to top within your reach. All this makes the top player so much more important then the other positions players and it all comes down to controlling the boots to give you that time save to get the amp and belt along with keg and pads.

So just take away the boots then?!? What are we waiting for?!? Personally I would like to explore possible alternatives to removing the boots also, since the movement possibilities added to the top position is fun in my eyes.

First off I think this room needs changes:
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The belt is still in the position it's in the DM original of this map. This make it only really accessible fast via the boots. Either you could make a elevator up to where the belt is or simply put it on the middle of the floor. Since this room is between two positions I think having the belt in the open could make for some real wars about it which could be fun for both players and viewers and streamers.

Secondly this is the part where the boots would be fun to have:
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Getting from the lowest level up to the point is where I find the boots to be a good addition. However there is two elevators near by and the added possibility of adding in a something that makes it possible to dodge up from the mid level to the point would compensate for the loss of the boots in dynamics to the position.

Thirdly I think the biggest problem with the boots are the lack of teamplay needed to reach the amp, this is one place where I think it could be possible to move the amp to:
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The red marked area would be a fun place to mod so the amp is in there. Could even make it super hard to reach by having a window or anything in front of it which has to be activated from top point to open up the amp to be taken, a button to shoot behind the ammo pack next to top point (could open for accidental shots that give the opponent the amp). To make it a great team play skill to get the amp instead of a simple power up. You could still reach it with the boots from low but unless someone opens it for you it's impossible for you to get it alone. I would try to not make it able to be reached from the blue marked area.

Also the low point I think could have some small changes to make it more dynamic:
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In the red zone a drop hole down to the point in some way I think would be interesting. Cause then you could also dodge from the blue zone instead of only attacking from that room into the small narrowed corridor. Also this would even more open for spawns beside the red zoned area, which would make them able to contest for the keg to open even more possibilities for wars about powerups which is interesting.

If the amp is moved away from it's current room that would leave it as a big spawn room, which I don't necessarily find to be a bad thing.

I hope we can modify this map to make it even a more interesting map, which people like to pick! Start the discussion and come with constructive suggestions to improve the map!
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Re: Tempest

Postby ph34r » Mon May 19, 2014 12:49 pm

     I don't think the fact that high perch is an important CP makes it a bad map, there are many great sDOM maps that have very important CP's (Peak Low, Olden Mid, Gharden Mid,just to name a few), and all of these maps are great. I also think it's very unfair to say that getting amp in Tempest requires less teamwork, as IMO working as a team to control the boots and stopping the other team from getting amp once they get boots is just as intense and team-oriented as any other amp. Tempest is a great map and I believe the boots have a lot to do with it. It's also worth noting that its very possible to get amp without boots in tempest with a simple vertical boost, it just takes a bit of practice.

·Lift to belt idea: I think this is a great idea and probably the most important as well. As it is right now, neither Low or Armor CP can effectively access belt without losing massive control points due to the length of time it takes to get it, rendering the powerup completely useless. I personally love the position of the belt as it can be contested by both Low or Armor, but its accessibility is a definite problem. Making the belt more accessible will greatly enhance the flow of the map.

·Dropdown hole above Low CP idea: I think this is another great idea that will really open up the CP. It will make the side lift actually useful as well as making the CP much more accessible rather than having to re-take down 2 small corridors.

·Moving amp to armor room idea: I really don't like this idea at all. Armor is already the 2nd strongest item in sDOM, putting it in the same room as the strongest item in sDOM seems very overkill especially considering it is the only 100A on the map. IMO the current amp position is perfect as multiple CP's can contest for it, and it is a hotzone in general due to spawns which make for extremely interesting team battles for amp.


The map could definitely use some small fixes, and some of your suggestions are truly great in improving the map. I think calling the map unpopular is definitely unfair though, it was one of the most played maps in dev games. I think the sample size is too small though, especially considering it has been pugged quite actively both in the previous season and the past week. It was also a top3 pug map during clanbase sDOM days, even though it wasnt even on the maplist! I believe applying your ideas can help make it one of the most popular maps in the entire list, looking forward to it.
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Re: Tempest

Postby HuMPtY » Mon May 19, 2014 1:02 pm

agree with ph34r unfortunately.

i think sdom still being quite young..people havent adapted their tactics fully... half way through last season alot more people were playing 2 people a bit more commited high tempest which balanced it a lot better
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Re: Tempest

Postby khxmz » Wed May 21, 2014 8:16 am

Working on this now, will update with screens and dl link.
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Re: Tempest

Postby ulo » Wed May 21, 2014 8:29 am

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Re: Tempest

Postby Rum » Wed May 21, 2014 1:38 pm

Map flow is pretty good, the shifting of what it used to be (2 @ armor -> one transition one armor) this would make it a better map. The belt is on point too, opening that access will reward the people who do time the belt now. So far, I'm enjoying seeing some of the new changes.
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Re: Tempest

Postby khxmz » Wed May 21, 2014 2:55 pm

The hole above tunnel CP and the elevator window I added to give that position a better chance at KEG.

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Another look at the elevator window from other side.

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Elevator to belt. I know it looks kinda poopy but couldn't think of anything else at the time.

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Last edited by khxmz on Wed May 21, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tempest

Postby ph34r » Wed May 21, 2014 4:32 pm

This is amazing please upload immediately :D
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Re: Tempest

Postby ulo » Wed May 21, 2014 6:24 pm

I love additions and changes to low! Great work khxmz!

The lift I had a maybe to grand thought on but here it goes:

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Make a Liandri type elevator inside this pillar with entrance in the red marked area.

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And then you get out in the red marked area in this image. I was thinking if you have time and like doing some edits the top of the elevator could be round. I think the yellow marked items still should be around it. So you would have a round shaped platform on the side you get out and once the elevator is taken players still have a good chance of shooting the guy going for belt down. Could make some interesting plays.
If it's made round then the blue wall could be taken down to make for jumps towards the drop down hole and if someone is above the pit they could shoot the guy going for belt down.

Maybe that's illusions of grandeur for the elevator, but certainly would make it look amazing!

Also since with the elevator parts of the room is rendered more or less useless this could be done:
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Put up a wall here and make a door and have spawns behind it. Could keep a ramp going up towards the pillar also but make it much shorter and only go up from as close to the wall as possible. Could also have the health pack from the corner moved to be along the wall so low can go up for it.


As said great work so far keep it up and this will be a high picked map of the season!
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Re: Tempest

Postby khxmz » Wed May 21, 2014 10:14 pm

A lot of these ideas are pretty radical imo. sDOM was always more about heavy item/pickup changes and very little structural changes. Some things need to stay untouched even if they become just a spawn area to keep the maps style and flavor. If you think the lift is too close I can move it farther from the belt. Or as an alternative the lift could start at the top position and require a team play button or shooting mechanism from armor cp to lower it.
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Re: Tempest

Postby ulo » Thu May 22, 2014 9:50 am

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Re: Tempest

Postby khxmz » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:00 pm

Update:

-Changed the lift in belt room to a lift jump
-Made it look like it belonged in the map compared to last versions lift (its same geometry from armor lift)
-Smoothed out the window I added that connects the Low Tunnel to the nearby lift
-Moved the 4 vials that were right next to belt a little further away, these can also be lift jumped to

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Some notes about how this new lift can/should interact with the rest of the map during a pug or match:
-Armor CP has a direct line of sight to the lift and should be able to shoot enemies going for it
-Tunnel CP's shot angle may be able to shoot them away and lock them in corner
-The lift jump can be air controlled towards the ramp for players who may find it difficult (its pretty easy)
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Re: Tempest

Postby ulo » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:00 am

Great work khxmz! Will try and get this version on the servers asap!
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