CTF-Bollwerk1∞

[kud]

I'm happy with the base. I'm happy with the spoke room. I'm taking suggestions for a couple things in mid.
1. How to get up high from low mid. I'm pretty sure that's a good thing, and I have ideas about what could work, but I'd rather see some other suggestions first.
2. High mid flow from the base exits. I was mainly trying to decide between a fast base-to-base jump pad, fast side-to-side jump pad, or both. Or something different. The point is, there should be more choices than simply dropping low mid.

[ravje]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ufe6a0

for people that dont have the texture file

[kud]

thanks rav.
btw this is the spot I'm talking about. leaning away from base-to-base bouncers. still think the side-to-side path needs something. maybe a bouncer. maybe a footpath. not sure yet.

[kud]

that's my thinking now

[Sauron]

It isn't necessarily beneficial to give such easy access from low to high. Makes no benefit for offense to take high routes if that is the case.

[kud]

imo getting from low to high helps the offense more while attacking than the defense while defending.

edit: those bouncers kill velocity, so it's a very easy chokepoint to cover

[kud]

i updated the op with a version that I think is good enough to try

[RickJames]

Just some thoughts from single player:

This is an obvious and easy defense position:

For those who haven't seen the map, there are lava pits to the left and right of that one staircase leading to the flag. So as a defender, every attacker coming towards you is in plain view for a while before they get to the flag platform.

Attacker pov:

That one staircase leading to the platform, with defenders positioned above you, is one of two ways to get to the flag. The other is this one:


Very long spoke room hallway, takes forever to cross, can see people coming from miles way. For people who haven't seen the map, this leads to mid, not the other base. I realize that no one would take the whole path directly, but even still, it's a huge and open room- seems mostly useless as an alternate route to/from mid.

The positions in base on this map are just very unfavorable for attackers, and it's still huge. Bouncers and boots help speed up getting into and out of base, but the spoke room is a totally nonviable route. In league play, this would be a pain in the ass every time you get shot in the back. DS was already on the edge of getting cut last season, and while it survived, I can't see this becoming even as good as DS without shrinking it more.

[kud]

rick's post needs a disclaimer

<+LaG|RickJames> Best pug performance for me was actually this one http://www.globalunreal.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=32593

[kud]

i'm sorry rick james, your comment about the stairs may have merit, and i think playing the map will give us some good information. i think you overlooked many offensive options, though, and misunderstood the point of the spoke room. the spoke room is for spawning (away from the flag as you've mentioned, which is NOT a favourable position for the defense), and it's much easier to cover/seal the flag carrier compared to the rest of the base. could also potentially be a good spot to hold the flag, because there are many obstacles to put between yourself and the enemy.

[kud]

[22:41:53] <@kud> was just playing bollwerk109 vs banko
[22:41:56] <@kud> felt pretty good
[22:42:00] <+Banko> yeah its pretty nice
[22:42:17] <+Banko> doesnt seem defense heavy either

about to try it in a pug

[TimTim]

This map is now on IPs 1 to 5 and redirect.

[kud]

<3

[kud]

recorded the demo from the pug last night. this should at least give a sense of gameplay. imo it needs to be played more by more players. from that game, I was thinking some spawn tweaking might improve gameplay, and perhaps the base could use some work (as rick mentioned). I'll consider making changes if it gets played 4-5 more times. I want to make informed, empirically sourced changes. Please demo if you play it, I might ask for some demos.
ps: I only mentioned problems, but I enjoyed playing it. there's a lot of ways to play, and the base is just a cool arena to fight in

[kud]

more comments/complaints:
-kinda easy to attack
-too easy to lose the efc
-not enough offense vs offense killing (boring)
-"actually pretty good"


http://www.globalunreal.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=33730

[kud]

here's one while playing offense. I might do a final video later in the week, but then I'm finished promoting.

[dR3]

[Sauron]

Nothing wrong with low frag, low grab maps. Have yet to play this one though.

[kud]

I didn't really design this map to be popular. I designed a map that I liked.
Things that I consider important in a ctf map: minimize the offense vs offense kills, many angles of attack, attack angle not telegraphed, spawns not a crutch for the defense, reasonable choke points, juke potential if the defense isn't in a good position.

Ultimately this map is all about positioning and misdirection, not maintaining a dopamine high by having garbage encounters every 3-7 seconds. This is like the goliath caves of ig, love it or hate it. Another way of summarizing the map could be quality over quantity.

I hear that it's too easy to attack just as often as I hear that it's too easy to defend, so I'm hesitant to make changes in either direction until there's a more uniform consensus. I do need to play vs some $1200+ defense, though. The first 5 minutes of our game were good, but you guys decided it was too easy to defend after the first two caps and stopped playing defense. How am I supposed to take that suggestion seriously? lol

[kud]

for posterity:

[20:25:50] <Sauron`win7> bollwerk played once now
[20:26:02] <Sauron`win7> a lot going on, maybe a little too much
[20:26:11] <Sauron`win7> but it was a nice change of pace
[20:26:14] <Sauron`win7> still difficult on o
[20:26:26] <Sauron`win7> against stronger d, might be a royal pain in the ass
[20:26:35] <Sauron`win7> the one spawn right by the spoke room is a bitch
[20:27:06] <Sauron`win7> once you have some space its nice to be able to do some jukes
[20:27:24] <Sauron`win7> offensive coordination would go a long way (obviously people have no coordination in new maps that are rather complex)
[20:27:50] <Sauron`win7> http://www.globalunreal.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=33807
[21:43:21] <kud|2> spawns were one thing i thought might need some adjusting
[21:43:37] <kud|2> any idea what pete and convict thought while playing d
[21:46:22] <Sauron`win7> at first pete thought it would be too difficult on d
[21:46:30] <Sauron`win7> but whatever they did seemed to work pretty well

[21:57:04] <Sonic|^> only issue I had was the one spawn by spoke
[21:58:02] <Sonic|^> http://www.sendspace.com/file/0yr5al
[21:58:12] <Sonic|^> you might need the female announcer to play that demo
[21:58:38] <Sonic|^> get it here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/4hq2u5
[22:00:16] <kud|2> cool thanks

[TimTim]

Change the name to BollTwerk please and thank you!

[kud]

made this change in version 110 based on my own feelings, views from demos, and a suggestion from einhert