Pug Rule Improvements

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Sonic|^ » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:19 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby HuMPtY » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:33 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Sonic|^ » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:40 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby HuMPtY » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:41 am

Maybe less time tweezing those eyebrows.. and you could help out sonic :)
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Sonic|^ » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:43 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Sauron » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:34 am

1 map iCTF pugs would actually increase the amount of total time played across the board. Many people don't enjoy iTDM. Most everyone in the channel enjoys iCTF. Many people don't have time for 2 maps plus 15-25 minutes of waiting before the first map and in between maps. Adding 1 map iCTF pugs does no harm whatsoever when it comes to pug activity, quite the contrary.
Being more strict with time/bans means people will know exactly what to expect if they are late - a ban. Instead of this inconsistent rubbish we currently see. Will some people be angry? Probably...but someone is always angry and more times than not it is several people in TS complaining about having to wait so long. That one person being banned for being late isn't as important as the whole.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Imperious » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:08 am

I do think Humpty raises a good point. I think here are the pros and cons of 1map vs 2 map:

Implementing 1map iCTF:

On the positive side, we get the following: More people playing when they otherwise couldn't, and therefore more pug activity. But there is the risk that we can divide the community as Humpty said. There will be a few people in 2iCTF not agreeing to play with the risk of DS or Beef, and there will be a few in 1iCTF trying to play. But I honestly think 1iCTF should be looked at more seriously because I think it's a superior pug mode than 2iCTF. There is actually no reason for us to be playing two maps with the same team, because no one really cares how the overall maps go. There is no emphasis on winning both maps getting any significant value, because if there was, people would want to play a tiebreaker to determine a real winner.

Imagine a world where the is only 1iCTF. How will things be different? Well, double the amounts of pugs if not more. You might say well that doesn't mean anything because double the amount of pugs but half the amount of maps is the same playtime. Sure, but you also have to understand that these teams are different each time. No one has to suffer from bad teams or someone they really dislike or so on. If map selection is random, you get a large variety of maps (but you would need to remove the match maps and only put pug-friendly maps during the offseason). If it's vote-oriented then you'll get a lot of Duku and such, undoubtedly, but we can do something to prevent it. For example, if someone picks a map, it cannot be picked for the next 5 pugs.

One disadvantage is that the 10 minutes+ it takes people to get in to a pug, you might have to go through after every map. Whereas now you endure that 10 minutes once every two maps you play. But then again, the fact that maps can essentially be resolved before the pug even starts will outweigh this. If it's randomly picked, it can be randomly picked and displayed by pugbot as people add. If it's by vote, then people can just vote when they join. Typing something like .j 1iCTF Acrony or .vote Acrony or so on.

I really do think 1iCTF should be tried for a few weeks, but I honestly also suggest that people should think about it being the main pug type. People don't like change so sometimes you have to do what's good for them and jam it down their throats like Apple likes to do (but hopefully with more openness)
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Carras » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:19 am

so much talk and hypotheticals. Just !addmod 1ictf and see what happens lol I'm sure things will sort themselves out. Even the map pick. Each team picks their map, goes to tie and randomly picked. Who gives a shit it's just one map. in and out.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby PACO » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:23 pm

Interesting posts so far. I'll be out of town tonight but will likely formulate a post in the next day or two. I will touch down on all of the main issues and I will not be beating around the bush on any of them. Until then, keep making comments, posts, criticisms and I will address them.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Hinata » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:27 pm

Rule 30: Players won't be judged equally for breaking the same rule.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Finalz » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:30 pm

Enforce 48h bans, admins are way to leniant in my opinion, and make a seperate pug for nomics.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby ph34r » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:54 pm

the reason 7 minute time limit worked when we used them is because the bans were long enough to actually mean something. Enforcing the rules evenly to every circumstance is the solution, but if the rule itself is lenient towards people who dont give a fuck about the 9 others in the pug, then enforcing said rules isnt going to work either. 24h bans are not even close to long enough for multiple offenders. What we did when it worked was keep a monthly admin log of all bans, 1st ban in a month = 24h, 2nd = 36h, 3rd = 1 week and 4th youre done. I dont recall ANYONE getting more than a 36h ban because the shit was taken seriously by both admins AND players. It has to be respected both ways.

As far as 1 map CTF pugs go, If the map is randomized I like the idea. Only real argument for not doing this is if we didnt have enough servers which isnt an issue. 1 map pugs arent really my cup of tea but for the people that want it I see no reason why not. If you wanna kill 2 birds with 1 stone force no-micers to play the 1 map pugs, 2 map pugs for srs bsnss.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby InfamousRaider » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:56 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby blackout\\ » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:47 pm

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby ph34r » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:25 pm

lol i remember that, i stand corrected. p.s. thor4prez
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PostThis post was deleted by risus` on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:26 am.

Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby risus` » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:27 am

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Solidsnake » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:15 am

CHRISTMAS FLAGS PLZZZZZZZZZ for improvements!
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Carras » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:39 am

paco would rather grind a mineshaft :roll:
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby PACO » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:14 pm

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby risus` » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:42 pm

Finally a post from PACO..

1. A lot of these rule changes are a lot simpler and involves less faggotry than simply switching the game mode most of us have been playing for years. Sure, you like to take time and you indeed do a good job with the league but I think you could listen to the majority or make simple changes to accommodate others (adding a 1v1 option) without jeopardizing the league.

2. Hmm seriously? Seems like more of a personal attack if anything but at the same time maybe its you beating around the bush to forget about 'the apology video' that was suppose to have gone viral before heltah even started playing again. Heltah/ij/others were caught cheating in #ipug and/or matches and the standard protocol of serving a suspension + an apology video was already known and in place. Unless you want me to make an apology video for downloading a detected public bot 9-10 years ago only to be banned instantly upon joining the server? Furthermore, at a time when I wasn't active in this game whatsoever nor planned to be. You might as well draw attention to 3 quarters of the community and many others waiting on this video. Either call me a cheater and start an investigation or stop distracting others and do what you said you'd do and release the video.

3. People aren't necessarily talking shit about all admins... but the workload of GU and #ipug seems to only be carried by a select few.. yourself included. Regular players that are more than willing to help make changes for the game cannot do so without the proper powers to do so. Hard to contribute when your not an admin. Post like these are usually all we can contribute with hopes they will bring changes.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby Sauron » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:59 pm

So instead of making a post that actually pertains to the subject matter, you go off on a tangent and neglect to even mention any of the suggestions in your post. Well done. You're being less helpful than any of the other posters here at the moment, Paco.
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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby blackout\\ » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:27 pm

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby risus` » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:50 pm

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Re: Pug Rule Improvements

Postby PACO » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:04 pm

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