Global Unreal

Normal switch times please

hello friends and followers, linoleum bonaparte here.

i would love for there to be multiple options for weapon speeds that are able to be changed serverside. if that is a shitshow enigma where you have to divide by zero or something then I would like weapons ctf to be made un-newb and have standard switch speeds.

i'm sure most of this will go unheard, though, timothy has already previously expressed opinions on this matter (or any matter that is brought up by the weapons CTF community).

i agree with everything kud has stated. add me to the list.

<TimTim`> and i know many disagree with me on this... but it's absolutely retarded to have different speeds for different gametypes
<SunnY> tdm and ctf have been doing this for years now
<SunnY> why change that
<TimTim`> and look how dead and divided the game has become as a result

<TimTim`> the fact that it's how it's been played by default for 10 yrs?
<TimTim`> so that's all you're used to
<TimTim`> of course you're going to think it's the best

<TimTim`> really because #uPug has a dozen pugs a day with people who don't care either way
<SunnY> the talent level in upug is terrible and the core of europeon and nactf players wont transfer there
<TimTim`> only the #mlut elitists who have been slowly killing the game are the ones who are afraid to adjust to a slightly different timing
<SunnY> because of that
<SunnY> its not just mlut
<TimTim`> actually euros who've played these speeds prefer it

<TimTim`> any mlut elitist who uses newnet and the marginally different weapon speeds as an excuse to not play
<TimTim`> is just pathetic
<TimTim`> and they're a fucking pussy

<TimTim`> but if people want to puss out because they have to adjust their timings slightly
<TimTim`> that's their own fault
<TimTim`> not my fault they don't have the balls

<TimTim`> holy fuck you're dumb as a rock

the creator of newnet fellas enjoy

i tried to approach him to get the weapon switch speed normal but apparently i get called dumb as a rock

LETS HOPE ITS NOT DELETED LIKE ALL MY OTHER POSTS

You conveniently left out the reason I called you dumb as a rock. You completely misunderstood (or ignored) what I was saying, so I had to repeat it and explain it like you're 5 years old.


[16:53] <TimTim`> people play dozens of pugs in #uPug
[16:53] <SunnY> NW CTF is a SKILL
[16:53] <SunnY> newnet already dumbs it down
[16:53] <TimTim`> no
[16:54] <SunnY> and the switch speeds being faster
[16:54] <TimTim`> the skill is defined by the competition
[16:54] <SunnY> dumbs it down EVEN further


After conversing with you calmly and rationally, I called you dumb after having to repeat myself because apparently nothing else was getting through. And then when I explained it in a way you could understand, you attempted to insult me and disappeared because you finally saw my point and that I've been right the whole time.

You lost the argument. There's really no need to hop on forums in an attempt at slander.

The difference in speeds is absolutely marginal. And the benefits of finding a middle ground between gametypes so that it is consistent across every gametype vastly outweighs the (nonexistant) drawbacks as described by the 10 to 20 elitists who are afraid to step outside of their comfort zone. Anyone who uses the (extremely minor) difference as an excuse not to play is a coward who would rather whine, complain, and blame something else for their own inadequacies. It's hilarious when I see the elitists hop in a uPug and expect to destroy everyone only to get dominated and then blame newnet because they no longer have a ping advantage.



Edit: Here's another gem from our conversation...
[16:50] <SunnY> yea a good 20 people just from the NACTF community
[16:51] <TimTim`> the same 20 people who have been killing UT
[16:51] <SunnY> yes these are the skilled players that would MAKe the league
[16:51] <TimTim`> make the league shitty*

Now why on earth would I want to bring the same 20 jackasses over who make mlut so shitty? They're the reason #mlut barely has any pugs during a season while #uPug has a dozen a day. No one in their right mind wants to play with those idiots. More people play in #uPug because they just want to play a video game. A few people play in #mlut because they want to be part of a nerdy soap opera. They might be loud and they might be full of drama, but they ultimately kill the game.

I wouldn't say the division between CTF and TDM is due to weapon switch speeds. They are two completely different mods and people have their preferences.

In #uPug, I've seen many CTF pugs fill with your usual TDMers that wouldn't have otherwise, or at least it would have taken much longer to fill - and vice versa. I've even directly asked a few in the channel if the transition between gametypes feels more natural than before, and everyone I've asked says yes. I'll find the logs if it makes anyone feel better.

Of course any difference in gameplay will be met with resistance by people who have played it one way for over a decade. But it's time to move forward. Without cohesion and consistency throughout the game in its entirety, it will remain divided and the separate communities will continue to dwindle down to nothing. The only way forward and the only chance at growth is to approach it with cohesion and consistency in mind, just as you would expect with any modern game.

From what I gather, changing things like the rate of fire of the sniper rifle, ammo counts, etc. etc. was to not alter the flow of the game. Well, I assumed that's what all the changes were for, at least. I have a destroyed brain.

Newnet makes weapons easier, and that's cool, because it will be an even playing field no matter the ping. But having FWS enabled will really affect the flow of the game. It's gonna be hard enough getting past elite snipers like sorn or Sonic when they don't have to account for ping, and now they can switch weapons to catch up to the play even faster? The gameplay is going to be significantly different.

It's your mod, you've done the hard work, so you are free to do what you think is best. But if you made all these changes to appease the NW community already, why won't you budge on this one?

My $0.02.

know that ur right? rofl get off ur high horse... lets talk about TDM... The last season i played in was MAJORITY CTF players... the TDM community is made up of maybe 10 players who DONT EVEN PLAY ANYMORE... the only tdm players i've seen in the past year is who? exactly no one.

lost the argument? man u sure are petty and delusional if u think that... only reason why i stopped speaking to you is because ur a stubborn prick who wont listen to reason... also this whole excuse of TDM and CTF needing the same weapon switch speed is complete complete and utter bullshit... they are 2 complete different mods that require 2 different skill sets and 2 different settings... but something as simple as that cant get through ur head... its sad cause something truly great could have came out of this...

there is simple no reason to not have it at regular speed... not a single reason

im still waiting for these people who are for the increased speed to voice their opinion since ur so concerned about the # of people who post.

i heard sunny holding out rest of sdom season

oh and these deduction of urs are coming from what the 1 MLTDM league u played it? u know absolutely nothing about competitive CTF and TDM and u ignore the people who do GREAT JOB THERE BUDDY

I really don't care to participate in these arguments. I made this thread to show support for a certain feature. If this feature isn't technically possible, let me know. If this feature needs more support before you consider it worth the time, let me know. If you have other reasons for not including this feature, let me know. I really can't stand the bickering.

tim, there will always be separate communities, because people decide who they want to play with. It's not unreasonable, and it is in fact healthy. The UT philosophy that's kept this game going for so long, and made your mod possible, is the ability to ENABLE people. The editor enabled map makers, and other creators were enabled by the open resources such as actors/mods/etc. I'm very tired of the "us vs them" mentality vis-a-vis GU vs mlut. There's assholes and gems within both communities, and the assholes are usually more vocal.

sunny, I appreciate your passion, but you and tim are clearly not having a very constructive conversation.

to answer ur questions kud this is easily do able, this has enough support he just doesnt care(its his way or the highway), and there are no real reasons just ones hes made up in his head...

the funny thing is i requested it to be tested for a week to see if people liked it better and he wont even do that... guess hes scared about the results

Weapon switch speed is not preventing anyone from changing game types. Plain and simple.

ir's correct, this is more an issue of people wanting to play with their friends, and their nemeses (yes, that's the plural of nemesis. googled). mlut just had another successful season (or two, considering there was a euro and NA tournament. semi finals are coming up). I think this is a good time to extend the olive branch and just hack in the changed switch speed if that's all that's being asked. I don't care about game dynamics, or politics. If survival is your end game, I'll refer you to the benefits of genetic diversity. GU is admirable, and has a practical strategy, but it still gains from the existence of mlut. I can go into detail if necessary. Extend the olive branch, compromise, get past the petty bickering, take the high road, help out some people who want to play UT (even if they don't want to play with you). It didn't make sense to compete with sam and his servers, and it doesn't make sense to compete with mlut. This niche is too small for us to be competing outside of the game.

there is no friction in the first place so what in the world are u talking about

Forgive me if my post seems rambling, but I'm less than sober atm and it's late.

On the one hand, I understand TimTim's desire to maintain a certain sense of control and artistic license over his newnet creation. After all, he's put in the time, so he can certainly code it as he pleases. However, I also agree that if he wants the community's support, it needs to feel familiar. Many of us have invested a decade or more into this game because we love it as it is now. It's certainly not without its flaws, but if you change too much, it will no longer feel familiar. The point of continuing to play a game after over decade is continuing to improve, not having to relearn it. Newnet should be all about elevating the skill ceiling, and I do feel that if UT is to have a realistic, sustainable future, newnet will likely be that future. The community cannot grow without uniting the North American, European, and Central/South American communities and newnet is the best option/avenue for doing that. I honestly don't see the weapon speed change as that much of issue, but then again, I also didn't have a problem with fws when we used it. What newnet really needs is some serious testing...PUGs, matches, leagues, etc...Give it an honest shot and provide honest feedback as more and more games are played. I'm sure there will be problems, disagreements, and kinks to work out along the way, but we've been playing the same game for going on 14 years now and we're STILL having problems and disagreements. Server crashes, shieldbelt bugs, packeting, ringing, aliasing, trolling. Let's be honest, the drama will never fully go away, but we can at east attempt to be constructive when it comes to the game's competitive infrastructure. Otherwise it -will- die and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

Your argument is that you want as little differences between gametypes as possible. So make the ctf weapon switch speed the default speed for all gametypes. Just a thought.

If only trans in - out speed is back to default speed that is enough for me. It does not affect TDM in any way. However im in favor of slower speeds even in tdm, it used to be the default for 8 years until flux took control of #tdmpickups when i gave it to noc and took it upon himself to change the setting. TDM died even more after that, most of the sign ups for any mltdm are ctf players or players like myself that really dont pug tdm anymore. None of my choice have to do with me getting beat in upug, last time i played upug i had over 100 frags on bleak and won easily, something i dont usually do even in the worse MLUT pugs. Its just much easier to kill people.